AR15 Irons vs ACOG
AR15 Irons vs ACOG
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Ambidextrous Known Distance AQT
Ambidextrous Known Distance AQT
Known Distance 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards.
How close can I get my iron sights score to that of an ACOG equipped AR15?
A Bear Creek Arsenal with the A2/A3 Carry Handle peep sights, 20 inch cold hammer forged barrel, and Velocity trigger versus a Bravo Company Manufacturing RECCE, with ACOG, 16" barrel, and Giessele SSA-E trigger. Shooting offhand at 100 yards, squatting at 200 yards, prone at 300 yards, and prone at 400 yards. Each stage 5 rounds left handed and 5 right.
Shooting Irons on a Known Distance, 100, 200, 300, and 400 yard, AQT. Half right, half left handed.
Scored 46 offhand. Pretty awesome score.
Squatting I shot a 47….pretty much crushing it.
Prone 300 yards, I shot a 50…granted, I wasn’t running a 55 and 65 second timer on stages 2 and 3.
Prone 400 yards shot a 43…doubled for an 86.
Total score 229.
I’d have been happy with a 210…ecstatic with a 220. Very pleased to shoot a 229. I seem to have good luck at this location. A fellow Appleseed Instructor down in Laramie, shoots into the 240’s and often perfect 250 scores with his iron sighted AR.
The point is that the more you know, the more skill you develop, the less you need…I can shoot an ACOG equipped rifle a bit better, but the difference is not massive. Is it worth the cost in dollars and weight for an optic…given the opportunity costs of where an extra $1000 can be spent in your life.
For those learning to become ambi, I do recommend an illuminated reticle (red dot, ACOG, or LPVO). But once fully ambidextrous, I am beginning to think that irons can deliver. And for ambi CQB, a heads up, looking over the rear sight and just getting a flash front sight post and wings picture is really fast and good enough for room clearing.
Maybe less gadgetry is good enough.
Scored 46 offhand. Pretty awesome score.
Squatting I shot a 47….pretty much crushing it.
Prone 300 yards, I shot a 50…granted, I wasn’t running a 55 and 65 second timer on stages 2 and 3.
Prone 400 yards shot a 43…doubled for an 86.
Total score 229.
I’d have been happy with a 210…ecstatic with a 220. Very pleased to shoot a 229. I seem to have good luck at this location. A fellow Appleseed Instructor down in Laramie, shoots into the 240’s and often perfect 250 scores with his iron sighted AR.
The point is that the more you know, the more skill you develop, the less you need…I can shoot an ACOG equipped rifle a bit better, but the difference is not massive. Is it worth the cost in dollars and weight for an optic…given the opportunity costs of where an extra $1000 can be spent in your life.
For those learning to become ambi, I do recommend an illuminated reticle (red dot, ACOG, or LPVO). But once fully ambidextrous, I am beginning to think that irons can deliver. And for ambi CQB, a heads up, looking over the rear sight and just getting a flash front sight post and wings picture is really fast and good enough for room clearing.
Maybe less gadgetry is good enough.
Bear Creek Arsenal BCG after 200 rounds. No unusual wear so far. Running Sentry Solutions Tuf-Glide dry lube.
Our recent video on Shaffer upgrades for the ACOG drew numerous comments about the cost of the Trijicon optical gunsight.
The ACOG, despite being “old” tech, is my favorite magnified optic. However, it is not a panacea for lack of marksmanship technique. If you’re dragging wood, you’ll pull that shot 2-3 moa regardless of whether you’re using irons or an optic.
So I did a quick Ambi-AQT shootout. ACOG vs Carry Handle irons. I was going to switch the carry handle to the UTG Super Slim Fixed Rear Sight sent to us by Leapers. I really like the slim, no protruding mounting nuts profile. But I found the elevation wheel clicks a bit too indistinct. Hopefully Leapers releases an American made UTG Pro version of the super slim rear sight…it’d be nice to save 5 ounces of topside weight.
So one sweltering hot day, I shot the ACOG and landed a total score of 230, including an offhand score of 48.
Then on a nice cool day, I shot the Carry Handle rifle getting a 228, including an off hand score of 47.
Given the difference in temperature, this is not a wholly fair comparison. Nonetheless I typically find a 4x magnified optic is worth about 6 points on the AQT. In other words, the ACOG is nice, but you can do work just fine with some good irons.
Coming soon, a known distance, Ambi-AQT Irons vs ACOG shootout. 100 yards offhand, 200 yards sitting, and out to 400 yards prone.
The ACOG, despite being “old” tech, is my favorite magnified optic. However, it is not a panacea for lack of marksmanship technique. If you’re dragging wood, you’ll pull that shot 2-3 moa regardless of whether you’re using irons or an optic.
So I did a quick Ambi-AQT shootout. ACOG vs Carry Handle irons. I was going to switch the carry handle to the UTG Super Slim Fixed Rear Sight sent to us by Leapers. I really like the slim, no protruding mounting nuts profile. But I found the elevation wheel clicks a bit too indistinct. Hopefully Leapers releases an American made UTG Pro version of the super slim rear sight…it’d be nice to save 5 ounces of topside weight.
So one sweltering hot day, I shot the ACOG and landed a total score of 230, including an offhand score of 48.
Then on a nice cool day, I shot the Carry Handle rifle getting a 228, including an off hand score of 47.
Given the difference in temperature, this is not a wholly fair comparison. Nonetheless I typically find a 4x magnified optic is worth about 6 points on the AQT. In other words, the ACOG is nice, but you can do work just fine with some good irons.
Coming soon, a known distance, Ambi-AQT Irons vs ACOG shootout. 100 yards offhand, 200 yards sitting, and out to 400 yards prone.
Bear Creek Arsenal AR15 Ambification Part 1
Bear Creek Arsenal AR15 Ambification Part 1
Bear Creek Arsenal AR15 Ambification Part 2
Bear Creek Arsenal AR15 Ambification Part 2
"I can see no evidence suggesting poor longevity. "
New Evidence:
Broken Extractor Pivot Pin
Broken Extractor Pivot Pin
Went to the range to zero the Palmetto State Armory carry handle sight that sits atop my Bear Creek Arsenal 20” AR.
Once zeroed, I decided to do an “Around the Squares” test…something I often do with optics, but never before with irons
Always aiming at the center square, I use the .43 MOA windage clicks and .53 Elevation clicks to move the hits from square to square.
I start with “checking my zero” firing at and hitting the center square. Then to hit the square to the left of center, I dial in 9 MOA left or 21 clicks on the windage and while still aiming at the center square, look for my hit in the middle left square.
Then using the elevation wheel, I dial up 11 MOA…or 21 clicks. Aim at the center square and anticipate a hit on the upper left square.
Then it’s 18 MOA right, 42 clicks…I ran out of windage clicks to the right so went as far as I could (8 clicks short), aimed at the center square and anticipated a hit near the upper right square.
Then 11 MOA down or 21 clicks on the elevation wheel, aiming at the center square, looking for a hit just to the left of the middle right square.
With the irons, I couldn’t dial down to the bottom row squares, so I did 21 clicks left for 9MOA. If I had been paying attention I could have subtracted 8 clicks to put me back to my zero…fired for the center square, and looking for a hit on the center square…or, in this case, 2 MOA to the left.
I think the test demonstrates that the .43 MOA per click for windage and .53 MOA per click for elevation is correct and that the PSA carry handle sight can legitimately perform the “around the squares” test.
Once zeroed, I decided to do an “Around the Squares” test…something I often do with optics, but never before with irons
Always aiming at the center square, I use the .43 MOA windage clicks and .53 Elevation clicks to move the hits from square to square.
I start with “checking my zero” firing at and hitting the center square. Then to hit the square to the left of center, I dial in 9 MOA left or 21 clicks on the windage and while still aiming at the center square, look for my hit in the middle left square.
Then using the elevation wheel, I dial up 11 MOA…or 21 clicks. Aim at the center square and anticipate a hit on the upper left square.
Then it’s 18 MOA right, 42 clicks…I ran out of windage clicks to the right so went as far as I could (8 clicks short), aimed at the center square and anticipated a hit near the upper right square.
Then 11 MOA down or 21 clicks on the elevation wheel, aiming at the center square, looking for a hit just to the left of the middle right square.
With the irons, I couldn’t dial down to the bottom row squares, so I did 21 clicks left for 9MOA. If I had been paying attention I could have subtracted 8 clicks to put me back to my zero…fired for the center square, and looking for a hit on the center square…or, in this case, 2 MOA to the left.
I think the test demonstrates that the .43 MOA per click for windage and .53 MOA per click for elevation is correct and that the PSA carry handle sight can legitimately perform the “around the squares” test.
BCM 16” RECCE $1560BCM Ambi Charging Handle $90BCM Ambi Safety $30Geissele SSA-E Trigger $170Arms Unlimited Ambi Mag Release $30BCM KD 3.0 Grip $15$1895
VS
VS
BCA Forged Upper with 20” CHF barrel $252BCA Forged Lower with Velocity Trigger $335PSA Carry Handle Sight $80BCM Bolt Upgrade Kit and Firing Pin $37BCM Ambi Safety $30Breek Arms Ambi Charging Handle $70Tactical Advantage FTS Hybrid Brake $90Arms Unlimited Ambi Mag Release $30MagPul Trigger Plate $20BCM KD 3.0 Grip $15Stake Castle nut, check barrel nut, $959
Because gun shot trauma all require the same emergency response whether with irons or an optic.
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Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
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Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
Affiliate Disclosure
Some of our posts at AmbGun.com contain affiliate links. If you click on an affiliate link and make a purchase, we may receive a small commission. Clicking on an affiliate link which earns a commission does not result in additional charges to you or cost you anything extra. Mentions of associated products within the content of AmbGun.com may not be noted as an affiliate in every referrence. Money earned via affiliate links helps keep the AmbGun web site and video production up and running. AmbGun hopes that you'd prefer that our efforts earn a commission rather than bypassing our affiliate links and simply adding to the bottom line of large marketers like Amazon.com
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