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Is the 22LR cartridge suitable for self defense? How does its stopping power compare to the centerfire cartridges like 9mm or 45ACP? Are there mobility and "optimal use of cover" advantages of the 22LR? What is the lifetime cost of maintaining proficiency 22LR vs 9mm? Is the 22LR a "less than lethal" self defense cartridge? Which cartridge is more manageable with slippery, bloody hands? What does "opportunity cost" imply for the 22LR vs 9mm comparison? How loud in Decibels is the 22LR compared to centerfire cartridges. How does 9mm and 22LR compare for rounds per size and weight?
"In 1981 Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Reagan with a 22. 1 shot in the stomach dropped a secret service agent like a rock. 1 shot to the back of the neck dropped a police officer like a rock. Neither got up. 1 shot hit James Brady in the head, dropped him too. Did not get up. 1 bullet RICOCHETED off the car and hit Reagan on the left side under his arm in the chest. It hit a rib and went almost completely through his lung. The underestimated 22 will work for self defense very well."
What advantages does the KelTec P17 bring to the self defense arena? How does it compare to a centerfire 9mm for self defense? What is the lifetime cost of training with a P17 vs a 9mm? Why is the P17 ideal for family self defense? What are the maintenance issues that plague the typical 9mm pistol? How easy is it to maintain a P17? Which pistol is best for manipulating with bloody hands? NATO and US Army "Handbook on Human Vulnerability" conclusions?
After I presented the statistical, financial, and lethality reasons for choosing 22LR for self defense over 9mm (or centerfire in general), I end up getting the “inherent unreliability of rimfire” argument.
Given my battle to get the Ruger LCP II to run reliably, the claim certainly has merit.
However, If I look at the reliability of the KelTec P17 I am unable to discern a reliability benefit compared to centerfire. The P17 with Mini-Mag has been shockingly reliable. I would have to do 50,000 rounds of side by side testing to discern a difference compared to 9mm.
My reliability testing protocol would be a bit different than the typical run it dirty until it quits test. I would allow cleaning of the handgun every 100 rounds. For example my Galloway Precision equipped Ruger LCP II is running Federal Punch 100% reliably for 50 rounds after cleaning before I start seeing any issues. I carry at most 30 rounds, so good enough.
Like “all cause mortality” my reliability testing of center-fire vs rimfire would add a time component…e.g., running a drill to see how many rounds are placed on target in 20 seconds with the measurement including the time it takes to clear any malfunctions that arise…comparison of average scores between rimfire and centerfire over that 50,000 rounds.
Moreover the drill would require draw, 3 one handed shots, shift to a barricade and 3 three more shots hits weak hand point shooting around the barricade while peering thru a window, then see how many two handed azone hits can be achieved in the remaining time allocation.
And if we assume that rimfire suffers three times the malfunctions as centerfire, I still think that given the speed with which a P17 malf can be managed coupled with the general speed with which hits can be placed in the A-zone with 22LR vs centerfire, the 22LR will come out on top.
Then there is Opportunity costs. What is the likelihood, over a lifetime, that you will face a lethal threat that requires a firearm? What other risks do you face?
Firing about 1,000 rounds of handgun per month, I can save well over $1,000/year running rimfire rather than 9mm…and much greater savings when compared to other calibers…is that $1,000+ best spent to get the alleged tiny fraction of improved reliability of a centerfire firearm or would the “saving your life and that of your family” $1,000 be better allocated to body armor, first aid gear, better tires for your family vehicle, nutrition, food storage, moving to the country, thermal or night vision, education, pare down debt, gym membership, etc
The whole “I wouldn’t trust my life to” x, is almost wholly a rationalization to buy toys we think are cool while ignoring any adult evaluation of the opportunity costs or adjusting for any kind of all encompassing risk analysis.
In my judgment, a 22LR KelTec P17 for CCW and a Ruger 10/22 is about all I need for a WROL situation. Add in a centerfire rifle like an AR, RDB, or Mini 14 for louder hunting and “go to war” and I’m done. I have WAAY more than this and honestly I’d be smart to sell this excess off and address those opportunity costs I’m currently ignoring.
With my video channel, I rationalize that this excess is part of that business. But given how lucrative it is creating video content, that only works when I’m not thinking about it too carefully.
Time to think more carefully.
Given my battle to get the Ruger LCP II to run reliably, the claim certainly has merit.
However, If I look at the reliability of the KelTec P17 I am unable to discern a reliability benefit compared to centerfire. The P17 with Mini-Mag has been shockingly reliable. I would have to do 50,000 rounds of side by side testing to discern a difference compared to 9mm.
My reliability testing protocol would be a bit different than the typical run it dirty until it quits test. I would allow cleaning of the handgun every 100 rounds. For example my Galloway Precision equipped Ruger LCP II is running Federal Punch 100% reliably for 50 rounds after cleaning before I start seeing any issues. I carry at most 30 rounds, so good enough.
Like “all cause mortality” my reliability testing of center-fire vs rimfire would add a time component…e.g., running a drill to see how many rounds are placed on target in 20 seconds with the measurement including the time it takes to clear any malfunctions that arise…comparison of average scores between rimfire and centerfire over that 50,000 rounds.
Moreover the drill would require draw, 3 one handed shots, shift to a barricade and 3 three more shots hits weak hand point shooting around the barricade while peering thru a window, then see how many two handed azone hits can be achieved in the remaining time allocation.
And if we assume that rimfire suffers three times the malfunctions as centerfire, I still think that given the speed with which a P17 malf can be managed coupled with the general speed with which hits can be placed in the A-zone with 22LR vs centerfire, the 22LR will come out on top.
Then there is Opportunity costs. What is the likelihood, over a lifetime, that you will face a lethal threat that requires a firearm? What other risks do you face?
Firing about 1,000 rounds of handgun per month, I can save well over $1,000/year running rimfire rather than 9mm…and much greater savings when compared to other calibers…is that $1,000+ best spent to get the alleged tiny fraction of improved reliability of a centerfire firearm or would the “saving your life and that of your family” $1,000 be better allocated to body armor, first aid gear, better tires for your family vehicle, nutrition, food storage, moving to the country, thermal or night vision, education, pare down debt, gym membership, etc
The whole “I wouldn’t trust my life to” x, is almost wholly a rationalization to buy toys we think are cool while ignoring any adult evaluation of the opportunity costs or adjusting for any kind of all encompassing risk analysis.
In my judgment, a 22LR KelTec P17 for CCW and a Ruger 10/22 is about all I need for a WROL situation. Add in a centerfire rifle like an AR, RDB, or Mini 14 for louder hunting and “go to war” and I’m done. I have WAAY more than this and honestly I’d be smart to sell this excess off and address those opportunity costs I’m currently ignoring.
With my video channel, I rationalize that this excess is part of that business. But given how lucrative it is creating video content, that only works when I’m not thinking about it too carefully.
Time to think more carefully.
Because gun shot trauma all require the same emergency response whether from 22LR, 9mm, or 45ACP. And it's better to carry a lightweight 22LR with a Emergency Trauma Kit than a 9mm pistol without.
"a .22 LR bullet is capable of inflicting very serious injuries (e.g. the four people wounded during the Reagan assassination attempt) or death e.g. the Kauhajoki school shooting (11 killed and 1 wounded), the Jokela school shooting (8 killed and 1 wounded), or the 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (2 killed and 8 wounded) as well as the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy. Numerous other shooting incidents have demonstrated that .22 LR bullets can easily kill or seriously injure humans."
Spreadsheet analysis of 9mm pistols (and one 22LR outlier) using Ambgun's unique dollar oriented, ballance sheet perspective.
We start off comparing the Hellcat, P365XL, MC2c, MC2Sc, and PF9 and, based upon AmbGun perspective, come to some surprising results regarding the 9mm pistols. But when we introduce the P17, things get really interesting.
We start off comparing the Hellcat, P365XL, MC2c, MC2Sc, and PF9 and, based upon AmbGun perspective, come to some surprising results regarding the 9mm pistols. But when we introduce the P17, things get really interesting.
Greg Ellifritz's Research
Greg Ellifritz's Research
94% of shooters improve after using MantisX for just 20 minutes
MantisX10 Elite - Dry Fire , Live Fire, Handgun, Rifle, Shotgun, Archery
MantisX3 - Dry Fire, Live Fire, Handgun, Rifle
MantisX2 - Dry Fire Only, Handgun, Rifle
Mantis Laser Academy
MantisX10 Elite - Dry Fire , Live Fire, Handgun, Rifle, Shotgun, Archery
MantisX3 - Dry Fire, Live Fire, Handgun, Rifle
MantisX2 - Dry Fire Only, Handgun, Rifle
Mantis Laser Academy
During WWII , The United States sent Winchester Model 74's to Britain on the Lend Lease program.
If Germany landed on the British Isles, the civilian militia could use the 22LR semi-automatic Winchester rifles fitted with scopes and suppressors to harass the Germans.
The German's never landed in force, so the Model 74's never saw action.
If Germany landed on the British Isles, the civilian militia could use the 22LR semi-automatic Winchester rifles fitted with scopes and suppressors to harass the Germans.
The German's never landed in force, so the Model 74's never saw action.
Only Hits Count?
The flat, one-way range thinking undermines gunfighting ability.
The flat, one-way range thinking undermines gunfighting ability.
When Violence is the Answer by Tim Larkin
Sentry Tuf Glide Dry Film Rust Inhibitor. Making any pistol more reliable.
Israeli Experience with 22LR
Israeli Experience with 22LR
Dry Fire Your KelTec P17
Dry Fire Your KelTec P17
(2) Pack
Hammer Block for KelTec P17
For Dry fire only, not a device meant to prevent firing of live ammo.
Remove ammo from the pistol before use.
Prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin
Prevents damage to the firing pin tip when dry firing.
Ships for free!
Attention: Hammer Block does not work with KelTec's new Red Dot slide. Works only with the stock "iron sights" slide.
Warning: No customer service. No tracking number. Few fucks given. Usually ships the next day, but occasional delays of up to 10 days are possible.
Combine with the MantisX10 Elite for the most effective dry fire practice.
$20
Click Buy Now or PayPal $20 to rifleman@ambgun.com
AmbGun.com is THE ambidextrous gunfighting resource. Why you should become an ambidextrous gunfighter. How you can become an ambidextrous gunfighter. What the ambidextrous gunfighter requires in his equipment.
Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
Affiliate Disclosure
Some of our posts at AmbGun.com contain affiliate links. If you click on an affiliate link and make a purchase, we may receive a small commission. Clicking on an affiliate link which earns a commission does not result in additional charges to you or cost you anything extra. Mentions of associated products within the content of AmbGun.com may not be noted as an affiliate in every referrence. Money earned via affiliate links helps keep the AmbGun web site and video production up and running. AmbGun hopes that you'd prefer that our efforts earn a commission rather than bypassing our affiliate links and simply adding to the bottom line of large marketers like Amazon.com
Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
Affiliate Disclosure
Some of our posts at AmbGun.com contain affiliate links. If you click on an affiliate link and make a purchase, we may receive a small commission. Clicking on an affiliate link which earns a commission does not result in additional charges to you or cost you anything extra. Mentions of associated products within the content of AmbGun.com may not be noted as an affiliate in every referrence. Money earned via affiliate links helps keep the AmbGun web site and video production up and running. AmbGun hopes that you'd prefer that our efforts earn a commission rather than bypassing our affiliate links and simply adding to the bottom line of large marketers like Amazon.com
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